The Detransition Advocacy Network (TDAN) @DetransAdv
Supporting detransitioned, desisted, and reidentified people worldwide. 📧 [email protected] 📱 00 44 7877977525 detransadv.com Joined September 2019-
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Thread 🧵 Last week, #detransCanada published our brief on #BillC6 because we believe the existence and experience of #detrans people is being intentionally overlooked. detranscanada.com/brief-on-bill-…
We have a news section of our website now :) Ok, there's not much there yet - but check it out so that we remember to update it. Thank you 💜😊 detransadv.com/blog
A note from our founder.
#Detrans #DetransVisibility #DetransCanada DetransCanada.com/get-involved/
Hello - we need a Czech speaker who might be able to vlunteer some hours to help translate a document for a detrans person in Czechia. Are any of our followers able to help?
Our apologies if you have noticed your donations being declined on PayPal. We have had problems with small donations being made, so they can raise false complaints. We're not sure what the solution is to this but expect we will be looking for another way to receive donations.
"I grew up in a city in southern Germany. My childhood was great until I joined a GNC-phobic and later homophobic school in my early teen years. 1/8
We're still here plodding along through the pandemic though many parts of the UK are once again in lockdown. Our services continue to run online until we feel it is safe to resume otherwise.
Our listening service has been used for almost 10 hours this week. If you feel you might benefit from speaking to us, drop us an email at [email protected] to book an appointment.
This claim—from a sponsor of @SantiagoAD53's #AB2218—that we have attacked trans people is false, has no evidence. The claim itself is an attack on us. We seek to help all detransitioners, and many detransitioners are still trans. Stop the hate. x.com/ebonyavaharper…
Julie Bindel @bindelj
114K Followers 2K Following Feminist. Journalist. Author. Co-director & founder of @project_lesbian Agent: @TBP_Agency
Genspect @genspect
42K Followers 1K Following An international alliance promoting a non-medicalised approach to sex & gender. We support Stats For Gender, Beyond Trans & the Gender Dysphoria Support Network
Ritchie Herron 🌷 @TullipR
55K Followers 885 Following First, do no harm. HRT is ☣ | JK is based | Unironic Eunuch | Autistic | Double Agent | Chief Apostate | Forever recovering from Surgery |
TransgenderTrend @Transgendertrd
58K Followers 4K Following Leading UK organisation calling for evidence-based care for gender dysphoric children. Support our work: https://t.co/HqOLINB3aI
Patrick🕸 @STILLTish
38K Followers 9K Following #AdultHumanFemale #Sex is a legally protected characteristic. https://t.co/eWFwRPXdza https://t.co/hLasfUWOs4
Malcolm Clark @TwisterFilm
47K Followers 10K Following TV science writer who campaigns against puberty blockers. Trans identified males are men. Subscribe: https://t.co/iD2gZ0E5x7
Fred Sargeant @FredSargeant
35K Followers 552 Following Stonewall riots veteran & a first Pride founder | Lt. (ret) Stamford CT PD Assigned Leo At Birth | Banned in Prosper TX School District | #IStandWithJKRowling
Sarah Phillimore @SVPhillimore
33K Followers 3K Following Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens. Family lawyer. Hoarder of Rights. All views my own and protected by Article 10 ECHR.
Tania Marshall 🇨�.. @TaniaAMarshall
21K Followers 18K Following 2 Amazon🥇Books | Chair @IAPCI | 2e HSP Autism PTSD Anxiety Narc Abuse Cults Deception | Bookings 👇🏻https://t.co/LaclK1I0HH or [email protected]
Dr Karen Ingala Smith @K_IngalaSmith
55K Followers 2K Following Woman. Feminist. Northerner. @femicidecensus @countdeadwomen. Author of Defending Women’s Spaces.
🇨🇦 Women Exist .. @Women___Exist
25K Followers 5K Following 'Woman'= ♀ biological descriptor. #SexMatters Left leaning. Stop anti-scientific, homophobic gender propaganda.Warning:I use evidence. Agent 4567. Typos 🤷🏻♀️
Woman’s Place UK @Womans_Place_UK
63K Followers 4K Following Violence against women and sex discrimination still exist. Women need reserved places, separate spaces and distinct services. Join our campaign to keep them.
Eliza Mondegreen @elizamondegreen
24K Followers 881 Following Researcher and freelance writer/photog. “The enemy is the gramophone mind, whether or not one agrees with the record that is being played at the moment.”—Orwell
Keep Prisons Single S.. @NoXYinXXprisons
30K Followers 2K Following Keep ALL male prisoners out of women's prisons. https://t.co/jlQ4Rvppxy https://t.co/R5lDM3pH5P https://t.co/KD9fclncF5 https://t.co/PEiOZD8XiO #KeepPrisonsSingleSex #RepealTheGRA
Helen Saxby @helensaxby11
24K Followers 5K Following Feminist. Twin. Part Dorothea part Rosamond like everyone else.
Reality Girl Zine @RealityGirlZine
17K Followers 3K Following why are so many girls deciding they’d rather be boys? https://t.co/zJPjn9v0YZ
Wild Womyn Workshop @Wild_Womyn
16K Followers 7K Following Radfem's favorite shop by @frenchfem Terf business before it was cool. Dyke. #ThisWitchDoesntBurn #terf #radfem pronouns: Her/Ladyship
Rachel Rooney @RooneyRachel
25K Followers 6K Following Erstwhile SEND teacher/children's poet 📚 Heretical Globularist 🌏 Views mine (obvs) & not those of my publishers 🤔 I prioritise child safeguarding 🛡️ Cassist
Cat Cattinson-McMeow @catcattinson
19K Followers 912 Following Woman of detrans experience. Singer, artist, writer, wife 🦎🎤🎶❤️💍
💚🤍💜Hoardosau.. @coccinellanovem
17K Followers 9K Following ♿️ Single-sex spaces, services & sports matter. Thankyou @WRNWales @MerchedCymru @SexMattersOrg @fairplaywomen @NoXYinXXprisons @AllianceLGB @LesbianLabour
JaniceTherese @AirmedEir
52 Followers 247 Following
Lisa Hartke @Lihartke
1K Followers 2K Following shadowbanned from FB in’13. Banned from Twitter in ‘18 LinkedIn ‘19 Reddit ‘22. we will see how long I last here. Unapologetically in-politically correct:)
Jules @Smilegreatday
4K Followers 5K Following LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Use your heart not your head. You are from God, made from God. Be the light. Unite against dark.
Madalina Covaciu @CovaciuMada
6 Followers 145 Following
Kira Shiriaru @shiri4ru
71 Followers 728 Following Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth. (Cuenta de respaldo por si las moscas... ¡Ya me bloquearon 1 vez!)
seraphin @seraphin_md
71 Followers 729 Following Godlessness is inviable ~ revived from ashes and risen ~
Sally Taylor @SallyTaylor59
51 Followers 346 Following
Donald Akhigbe @donarebun
76 Followers 138 Following Father, Entrepreneur, British Politician, Anti-Racism Campaigner
Lívia Carvalho @meninanaopode
641 Followers 819 Following Tu pergunta o que eu sou, e elas respondem BRABA pronomes: vossa majestade/ alteza
ElTraductorInvisible @TraductorInv
222 Followers 1K Following
Migdalia @MigdaliaGarcy
3 Followers 52 Following Medical billing and coding student🏥 creative in Art⭐Being forever thankful to God as a single Mom never forgetting from where i came from his boundless love.
C-Jo @BadassBrokerCj
26 Followers 275 Following
gpg38 @GPa166
17 Followers 153 Following
Tracy @TracyLiam3
304 Followers 663 Following Im a happy mom. I want to help spread the word of human trafficking. The world needs to hear your voices to expose the evil. I want to help fight beside you
Mario Basualdo @Mari0bas
6 Followers 35 Following
Susan Engles @SusanEngles5
1K Followers 2K Following CHRISTIAN✝️ MAGA🇺🇸ANIMAL LOVER🐕🦺🐈, HISTORY LOVER. SCIENCE MAJOR, DM=BLOCK, LOST MOST FOLLOWERS DURING THE GREAT PURGE
Victor Meldrew @DCSboudicca
498 Followers 540 Following Grumpy bastard. Gen X. Stop motion project, Confused by cinematic lighting at a 1/18 scale figures painters needed for 1/10 scale
Sophie Duvauchelle @SophieDuva73002
45 Followers 200 Following Artist and jewellery maker. Drawing inspiration from the spiritual essence of the physical form.
Doreen Ferris @reawakening09
2K Followers 5K Following Veteran, #AdultHumanFemale #ChampionWarAthlete #1A #ketamine #leavingcaliforniacult
Ally Rose Garden @allyrosiegarden
200 Followers 2K Following Asexual Heteromantic Feminine and Androgynous Woman she/her
Lauren Richards, BA H.. @WorldofAnimus
182 Followers 994 Following Gothic individualist; Graphic Designer, Illustrator and Writer . Instagram - https://t.co/CL9X9PSU2c… Etsy - https://t.co/Jo4oeEHYjW...
Banshee @Banshee2777
22 Followers 155 Following
GardeningDuties @GardeningDuties
394 Followers 758 Following Dyke (noun) Adult Human Tomboy If you haven't been called a transphobe - you're not doing it right!
Carol Moore @carolmoore1776
265 Followers 1K Following Student of #consciousness, #feminist #antinuke #peacenik #libertarian #decentralist writer. Websites slowly coming back. Facebook/CarolMoore1776
Vote Party of Women! .. @Bridget78532322
1K Followers 923 Following Mother, BSc (Hons) Psychologist (Existential), Dog Trainer/Breeder, Plantaholic, Bookworm…
DetransHelp @DetransHelp
341 Followers 191 Following An organization by detransitioners for detransitioners.
Sammi @33Sammi32
418 Followers 640 Following Insta- @ peace.aloha.ongaku 🎶🪗working hard for our happy, healthy, humble Hawaii life 🏝🌺#cptsd #bilingual #bicultural she/they
ich lurke nur @detransquestion
1 Followers 27 Following Transition hinterfragend,idk was ich will. bleibt erstmal anonym
Lisa Shultz @LisaShultz2023
96 Followers 412 Following Writer, Advocate for Parents and Women's Rights
Marnie Laycock @marnieleigh2
18 Followers 89 Following
Lisa Lawrence @LDkeyfindergirl
157 Followers 381 Following Creator and Designer of the simply fabulous LD Keyfinder. Find your keys faster and never dig in your purse again. Over 40,000 happy customers!
Toni Armstrong Jr. @toniajr
1K Followers 1K Following Lesbian music fan/producer, organizer, feminist, musician, editor, photographer - fan of vampires, BattleBots, and clawhammer banjo. #BlackLivesMatter!
El Azhari Ahmed @ElAzhariAhmed85
312 Followers 3K Following Non ! "Si ta tante en avait, elle serait Brichel Trognon !" (L'Azarite A., 2022)
Samantha Goodhart @SamanthaGoodha2
117 Followers 412 Following Woman who codes, over 50. I quit the Conservatives. Sons need fathers and we need gender to explain that. GCs are a sort of conservative feminist.
🌌🫂 @quest1oning
2 Followers 57 Following female/ftm • questioning transition • thinking • leftist ( as in means of production should be worker owned)
MADDISON ARBOL @ArbolMaddi25304
118 Followers 122 Following CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN FROM TEXAS 🇺🇸 SOUTH SIDE 👉👆 #TRUCKGANG
Jill Gabli @jillgabli
352 Followers 798 Following Follower of Jesus, homesteader, permaculture/ regenerative agriculture enthusiast, carnivore wannabe, wife, mom, teacher, Constitutionalist
Zee X @DavidDanks4090
22 Followers 61 Following
Tom Green @tomgreentv
116 Followers 602 Following Documentary Maker - 'ME AND THE VOICE IN MY HEAD’ (C4), THE MAN WITH A PENIS ON HIS ARM' (C4), 'SWINGERS' (C4), 'CARRY ONS AT THE CASTLE' (C4)
Lapsed Yogi, PhD 🕉.. @felicelifshitz
481 Followers 607 Following Historian. Special needs parent. Exercise, travel, and musical theatre enthusiast. Juggler of mild addictions.
Raul Martínez @RaulMartinezGa
285 Followers 1K Following
SC Star @SCStar8
106 Followers 68 Following Recovering Democrat, living in a red state and loving it. Pronouns: USA.
Jordan Scott @Jordan_Scott719
353 Followers 225 Following Investigative Citizen Journalist / Constitutional Safety Auditor - Working hard to expose corruption and promote accountability in our communities
LGB Alliance @AllianceLGB
78K Followers 988 Following We promote the rights of lesbians, bisexuals & gay men, as recognised by biological sex. #SexNotGender. Please donate: https://t.co/5Rw1xoDGRF
TransgenderTrend @Transgendertrd
58K Followers 4K Following Leading UK organisation calling for evidence-based care for gender dysphoric children. Support our work: https://t.co/HqOLINB3aI
Jennifer Bilek @bjportraits
35K Followers 3K Following Exposing the Gender Industry Donate here: https://t.co/1kTZxKSPXy [email protected]
Stella O'Malley @stellaomalley3
24K Followers 3K Following Psychotherapist and author. Director of @genspect. Co-host of @widerlenspod https://t.co/DbK2Q8B2GD https://t.co/NZpGOsdHjK
Detrans Canada @DetransCanada
1K Followers 106 Following We are an apolitical organization that supports detransitioning, desisting and re-identifying people in 🇨🇦 To become a member: [email protected]
LGB Alliance USA @LGBAlliance_USA
13K Followers 575 Following We advocate for same-sex rights and stand against all homophobia, including sex erasure. Sharing someone's work is not an endorsement of the individual.
rowan_hc @rowan_hc
744 Followers 2K Following Grad student in Sociology & Science Studies @ UCSD. Soc/hist/phil of medicine, esp. w/r/t gender & sexual minorities. Unabashedly interdisciplinary
Bob Wieckowski @BobWieckowskiCA
4K Followers 382 Following
Connie Leyva @SenatorLeyva
9K Followers 854 Following Senator Leyva represents CA's 20th State Senate District, including portions of Los Angeles & San Bernardino Counties. Comment policy: https://t.co/Gm31qk3qdT
Brian W. Jones @SenBrianJones
9K Followers 1K Following California Senate Minority Leader | #FixCalifornia | Retweets ≠ endorsement
Steven Bradford @SteveBradford
7K Followers 922 Following CA State Senator (SD-35) Vice Chair of @CABlackCaucus & Chair, Energy Committe. Fmr Asm Member (AD-62) & Gardena City Councilman
Senator Pat Bates @SenatorPatBates
5K Followers 634 Following Mother of 2. Grandmother of 4. Senator for 1 million. Honored to serve California's 36th Senate District. Comment policy: https://t.co/D1GD19Ffgv.
Anthony Portantino @Portantino
8K Followers 3K Following Dad, spouse, biker, public school guy, behavior health champion and State Senator
Senator Melissa Melen.. @senatormelendez
55K Followers 1K Following CA Senator 28th District (ret.) • Navy Vet • Mom to 5 • Wife • super spy • @a1policy_ca State Executive Director• @a1policy Director of State Chapters #CALeg
TransFiguredMemoir @TransMemoir
109 Followers 310 Following Author at Skyhorse Publishing Trans Figured My Journey from Boy to Girl to Woman to Man
Both Sides? @BothSid46207488
5 Followers 30 Following Discussions around women's and trans rights should be free of threats. Tag this acct in any tweets which glorify or threaten physical violence to be retweeted.
Benjamin🪤Boyce @BenjaminABoyce
55K Followers 2K Following purveyor of loaded questions | https://t.co/Auo2VBXRMq
Boy George @BoyGeorge
489K Followers 47K Following Who's afraid of AI? It ain't met me! Management [email protected]
StephanieDavies-Arai .. @cwknews
21K Followers 5K Following Director of Transgender Trend Author of Communicating with Kids
Owl #TeamTERF 🏳️.. @LesbianOwl33
3K Followers 3K Following #LesbianNotQueer #IStandWithSashaWhite #IStandWithJKRowling #FBGC Support #detrans Contact me for US based activism resources for women, lesbians & LGB.
Anthony Rendon @RendonAD62
31K Followers 2K Following California Assembly Speaker Emeritus. Proud to represent the 62nd Assembly District & Southeast LA County.
Toni G. Atkins @toniatkins
20K Followers 5K Following Ready to serve as CA’s next Governor. Senator for SD 39. Fmr Asm Speaker & SD City Councilmember. Spouse to Jen, Mom to Joey & Mia 🐶🐶. https://t.co/oGxEOxOnJh
Lorena Gonzalez @LorenaSGonzalez
64K Followers 4K Following Principal Officer @CaliforniaLabor AFL-CIO. Former CA Assemblywoman. Breast Cancer Survivor. #Latina. Mrs. Nathan Fletcher ❤️ Mama Bear. #UnionizeCalifornia
Miguel Santiago @MSantiagoAD54
7K Followers 1K Following Asm. #AD54, Husband to Rad Wife + Dad to 2 kids & 2 dogs. Free community college, public banks, 💯 rent asst. & no evictions, Medicare 4 All. Progressive Dem.
Wendy Carrillo @AsmCarrillo
5K Followers 1K Following CA Legislator #AD52, Vice Chair @Cal_Progressive | Commisioner @FilmCalifornia, @MHSOAC, CA Cultural Endowment | ☎️ M-F 9-5pm: 213.483.5252
Senator Scott Wiener @Scott_Wiener
101K Followers 993 Following CA State Senator. Chair, Budget Committee. Former Chair, Legislative LGBTQ Caucus. Housing/transit/climate/criminal justice reform/health. Democrat.🏳️🌈✡️
Canadian Gender Repor.. @GenderReportCA
5K Followers 326 Following Parents and professionals concerned about medical transitioning and the impact of gender ideology on young people.
The Homoarchy @thehomoarchy
2K Followers 91 Following NEWS, COMMENTARY, & HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH FOR LGB PEOPLE
Our Duty : parents ch.. @OurDutyGrp
10K Followers 406 Following Support and advocacy for families with children who think they are transgender. Our Duty is to protect our children from serious harm. 🛡️
DetransitionersAnonym.. @detransitioners
436 Followers 0 Following Detransitioners Anonymous is a fellowship which meets to share our experiance, strength and hope, and support one another in recovery from transition.
NatashaChart @NatashaChart
3K Followers 5K Following “I’ve been banned for life from WordPress.” “Is that in your CV?” “No. But maybe it should be …” Alternate account @chartconsultllc
Elle Palmer @EllePalmer1
11K Followers 216 Following I’m Elle. I thought I was a man for 5 years. [email protected]
ReIME @RethinkIME
2K Followers 333 Following We are Rethink Identity Medicine Ethics Inc. Our mission is to promote the highest standards of ethical care for children and youth who are gender variant.
Joanna Cherry KC @joannaccherry
131K Followers 3K Following SNP MP for Edinburgh South West, King’s Counsel and Feminist.
Bob Withers @BobWithers52
3K Followers 580 Following Psychoanalyst, senior lecturer in mind body medicine, Bee keeper, raver (semi retired), footballer and #cpfc fanatic
Julia Mason MS MD @JuliaMasonMD1
10K Followers 225 Following Pediatrician c1995, pulled into the pediatric transgender dilemma c2018. Board member of the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine https://t.co/3xGyns8lfW
James Shupe (Formerly.. @NotableDesister
4K Followers 3K Following I reclaimed my male birth sex after becoming America's first legally non-binary person because transgenderism is a fraud and gender identity is legal fiction.
Detrans Voices 🦎 @FtMdetransed
10K Followers 244 Following Amplifying the voices of detransitioned women, being a detrans woman myself. In need of support? Just send me a message! 💜 (account not active atm)
Post Trans @post_trans
9K Followers 153 Following A project giving space for female detransitioners and desisters to share their journeys. #detransition
Peachyoghurt Genderfr.. @Peachyoghurt_YT
7K Followers 426 Following lesbian | feminist (not the fun kind) | jurist | no-nonsense | XX | biker | vlogger
Pique Resilience Proj.. @PiqueResProject
4K Followers 9 Following A collective of detransitioned & desisted women introducing nuanced conversation that empowers.
helena @lacroicsz
48K Followers 849 Following 24 | 🇵🇱🇺🇸 | advisor for @genspect | contact: [email protected]
LisaLittman @LisaLittman1
10K Followers 924 Following Physician-scientist conducting research about gender dysphoria & detransition. Institute for Comprehensive Gender Dysphoria Research (ICGDR). Views are my own.
Lisa Marchiano @LisaMarchiano
11K Followers 3K Following Writer and Jungian analyst, and podcaster @ThisJungianLife.
Parents of ROGD Kids @P_ROGDK
3K Followers 180 Following A group of parents whose children suddenly, seemingly out of the blue, decided they were transgender. Advocating for a more cautious approach to their care.
Will Malone MD @will_malone
13K Followers 3K Following Endocrinologist. Opinions my own. Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine (https://t.co/ZK8D6irXBd).Thread 🧵 Last week, #detransCanada published our brief on #BillC6 because we believe the existence and experience of #detrans people is being intentionally overlooked. detranscanada.com/brief-on-bill-…
#Detrans #DetransVisibility #DetransCanada DetransCanada.com/get-involved/
"I grew up in a city in southern Germany. My childhood was great until I joined a GNC-phobic and later homophobic school in my early teen years. 1/8
@Nigella_Lawson Please read the stories of young people at @DetransAdv @charlie_sci #KeiraBell Your empathy, your understanding, is greatly needed.
@charlie_sci @Polly552 @DetransAdv They lie, they lie, they lie.
Thank you at @DetransAdv for all the work you did on #AB2218. I hope the funds are used to heal those that need to be made whole again after transitioning
We have also never "partnered" in any way with any Christian conservative groups. Our nonprofit is nonsectarian. This article by @ebonyavaharper and @LosAngelesBlade is libel. x.com/mimmymum/statu…
@charlie_sci @DetransAdv People tried that with the LGB alliance. It is code for - we don't like what they are doing - so we will try and make them look bad - like a hateful extremist group. It means your group is necessary. It means you are making some people uncomfortable by doing a good. Ignore them.
It is finally happening! We warmly welcome @LGBAlliance_USA! This is an associate organization, related to #LGBAlliance but independently led. We will remain in close contact and wish the group the very best. Please follow this new group and give it your support.
@SapphireDiscord @julepparadox @DetransAdv That number is incorrect. Accurate Detranstioners rates arent available bc gender clinics dont do follow ups. But many detranstioners who were afraid to come out, now r. You’re trying to erase a community because they are ideologically inconvenient for u quillette.com/2020/01/02/the…
@SapphireDiscord @julepparadox There are a lot of detranstioners. More than are counted in surveys because gender reassignment clinics dont follow up with them #detrans #detransstories @DetransAdv
What medical profession did to this child is unconscionable.
"I'm 15. I've been on testosterone for 2.5 years. I wonder if I made a mistake. I hate some of the effects. The only reason I started them was because my endocrinologist said I was too old for blockers but could start T. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I'm suicidal"
@koinojoint Detransitioning is a statement for true health. The true Great Awakening
Boxes are for cats, not for humans.
Bodies can be strong, soft, big, cute, old and so much more. ❤️ Why do we have to label all bodies as beautiful? Why do we focus so much on outer appearance?
There's thousands of men like @jack_turban in the history of psychiatry/psychology. Men that think their singular regressive views about reality are the true picture. They've all been wrong. But when your arrogance means you've built a career on that worldview, when you've >
There are many loving ways to support a child who is expressing a different identity without agreeing with the identity literally. Expressing genuine curiosity, care, and calmly stating your belief while acknowledging your child's feelings is a good place to start.
Make use of them peeps, if you need.
Our listening service has been used for almost 10 hours this week. If you feel you might benefit from speaking to us, drop us an email at [email protected] to book an appointment.
@ViperStylesTv @NoXYinXXprisons @Lionessque @existentialrobo @ZubyMusic @NewgentTGA @Mladydik @manaxium @DetransAdv @Transgendertrd @HoraNoona There is a very sad case about a trans identifying female. She was detained with men in a prison psych unit and sexually assaulted. They have a violent history but are clearly vulnerable. Link to judicial transcript included. gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2019/09/15/ftm…
@ViperStylesTv @STILLTish @NoXYinXXprisons @existentialrobo @ZubyMusic @NewgentTGA @Mladydik @manaxium @DetransAdv @Transgendertrd @HoraNoona Intersex people are always male or female as well, you can read up via @raeuk, @intersexfacts, @ClareCAIS, @EndosexD. There can be billions of genders, it's made up, you can ID as an antimacassar. We need sex segregation w/ perhaps a 3rd space for TIP, yes - same as loos, etc.
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