@MichaelS1453 @OrthodoxEnsign @Nicholai_Korea @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos Ok, is their baptism of desire for infants?
@Harli3946 @MichaelS1453 @OrthodoxEnsign @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos Dont debate a person who is an error ask your clergy and I guarantee you. They will not agree with this person's interpretation of the council's or of the saints.
@Nicholai_Korea @MichaelS1453 @OrthodoxEnsign @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos I'm trying to test if he is being logically consistent
@Harli3946 @MichaelS1453 @OrthodoxEnsign @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos Of course, she's not because we have icons of the holy innocence who were killed by Herod. We have tons of icons that show Christ in a field with all the infants who were martyred and killed and died from abortion and things like that. A necessity, most of them were not baptized.
@Nicholai_Korea @MichaelS1453 @OrthodoxEnsign @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos One could argue the pre-ressurection infants were prior to the New Covenant, but I just think it's a whack position.
@Harli3946 @Nicholai_Korea @MichaelS1453 @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos Martyrdom is unambiguously a Baptism of blood. Those infants slain by Herod are martyrs
@OrthodoxEnsign @Nicholai_Korea @MichaelS1453 @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos What if an baby is killed in a different context, such as a crash leaving the hospital.
@Harli3946 @Nicholai_Korea @MichaelS1453 @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos That is not martyrdom, no.
@OrthodoxEnsign @Nicholai_Korea @MichaelS1453 @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos So the baby, despite intent to baptize, is in Hell?
@Harli3946 @Nicholai_Korea @MichaelS1453 @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos Baptism is necessary to enter the Kingdom. And even IF God recognizes a baptism of desire in these or any other cases, I'm not at liberty to say it, but rather must stand by what He's said in His Word, which is that only the Baptized enter, bc all are sinful and in need of saving
@OrthodoxEnsign @Nicholai_Korea @MichaelS1453 @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos Is baptism of desire not held as dogma in the EO church?
@Harli3946 @Nicholai_Korea @MichaelS1453 @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos In that area I haven't seen anything definitive and so I confess ignorance and it may even be a mystery. My concern and focus is not specific scenarios so much as it is the broader dogma of original sin and the necessity of Baptism for all.
@Harli3946 @OrthodoxEnsign @Nicholai_Korea @jaredef @OrthodoxEthos There are prayers and canons we pray for unbaptized babies. We hope that God will have mercy. I have heard unbelievers argue that abortion is a virtue because infants will go to heaven as they are without sin. Would this be true from your perspective?