Christians: God is eternal, became flesh, is one and the same being as Jesus, and died to save us from Hell which is God's punishment for sin. Me: Christians believe an eternal God came into time and died to save us from himself. Also Christians: That's not what we believe!😡😡
Note: Given Christianity, God is sovereign, so we act as we do because God wills it. God cannot save us from ourselves unless we can be ultimately responsible for what God wills. We cannot be ultimately responsible for what God wills, therefore, God cannot save us from ourselves.
@SpeedWatkins I am a Christian, but don't buy into the "punishment for sin" model at all. The phrase "eternal punishment" they refer to (kolasis aionios) is better translated "pruning for a time," that is, cleansing and healing the people bound by their own hatred, fear, and self-destruction.
@SpeedWatkins What are the objections you've gotten to that? A Christian would not phrase it the way you did and might want to add more, and what you said could be understood in a false way, but I don't think it's necessarily wrong
@SpeedWatkins Did you mean to cut the dialogue short? Eternal God incarnated as a temporal man, died, was resurrected, than re-entered heaven, for all eternity. Not sure why you omitted some bits.
@SpeedWatkins This is one way of telling the Christian story: God is saving us from Himself, mostly Calvinists (and not all Calvinists affirm this). There is diversity on this point. I am confident you will adjust your view on this, Blake :-)
@SpeedWatkins extremely charitable steelmanning of the atonement here.